Question about cleaning

[PeteK]

Greetings, all. My first post here! Sorry if it's too long... :|

I had a mild interest in cast iron cooking a while back, and acquired two Griswold pans: a #3 and a #6. I didn't do much to them after purchase, just cleaned with soap and water, then added a layer or two of my own seasoning. But I left the majority of the old crud, err, seasoning. Since then, my interest level has increased, and I've read a ton about both cleaning and seasoning. There's certainly a wide range of opinions out there!

Anyway, I've recently picked up two #10s, a #8, and am awaiting another #3. I like the #3s for omelets, because my kids like them but don't love them. :tasty: These are all small logo, more recent pans - bought more for use than collecting. And I've begun really cleaning them down to the metal and seasoning them from there using six layers of flax seed oil (a la Sheryl Canter).*

Thus far, my cleaning method is now:
1. Soak in a lye bath for several days, depending on how much crud is on the pan(s).
2. Douse them with vinegar and then scrub them with a stainless steel scouring sponge and Barkeepers' Friend.

That has done a good, but not great job. There are still dark spots from some really stuck-on crud. I got both a coarse and fine wire brush drill attachments and tried them on the one wobbly pan I have (always practice on scrap!), and they didn't seem to get the crud off, they just shined up the area around it, lol. It doesn't bother me so much on the bottom or outside of the pan, but I dislike it on the inside.

So finally to my first question: I have some 400 and 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper, as well as some 0000 steel wool. I thought about sticking some sandpaper to a small, round and flat piece of wood and hitting the bottom of the pan. And then sticking some to something more flexible and doing the sides. Then polishing it up with the steel wool. Is that unheard of or considered heresy? If not, is it even effective? It occurs to me that the crud has most likely sunk into the pores, and there's virtually no way of getting it out.

I do have a second question. Yesterday I won an auction for my first (and most likely only) pre-Griswold "Erie" piece. I'm sure I overspent, I'm sure it's in rough shape and probably not worth it, but I wanted just one piece of 100+ year old Americana. I'll try to link a pic below. The question is this: are there certain cleaning methods that you specifically would or would not use on a piece that's meant to be collectible rather than useable? I would think a lye bath would be fine, but my guess would be to do little more than that. I'm curious to know what you all think.

Thanks for reading!

TL;DR
1. Is using sandpaper on the inside of a pan meant for use rather than display okay and/or effective?

2. What cleaning methods would you suggest/avoid for older, more collectible pans?

* I know there are tons of opinions on seasoning. I've read many of them. Stinking up my kitchen for hours on end is my choice, and I'm fine with it, and happy with the result. To me it's become something of a hobby.

 

[Doug D.]

I would put away the drill. Yes, there are the old timers who used to and still use a mild steel wire wheel on a bench grinder as their method of choice, but in these days of "TL;DR", people read just until they think they know what they need to know and then go off and irreversibly damage, from a collectible standpoint, valuable vintage pans. 400 and 600 grit sandpaper are quite fine, abrasively speaking, but I still would not recommend sandpaper except on already polish-ground surfaces like the insides of skillets; sandpaper on the outside "as-cast" parts is to be avoided. There are other methods you should try first on those residual dark spots. Steel wool is OK, as are stainless steel scrubbers like Chore Boy, and soft to medium bristled stainless steel hand brushes; anything that changes original cast or polished surface texture or appearance is verboten, ordinary utensil marks from cooking use excepted. All of the acceptable methods and implements are covered on the cleaning and seasoning pages of the main website, and are safe for any pan of any vintage. http://www.castironcollector.com/restore.php

 

[PeteK]

Thanks for your quick reply!

I would put away the drill.

Already done!

400 and 600 grit sandpaper are quite fine, abrasively speaking, but I still would not recommend sandpaper except on already polish-ground surfaces like the insides of skillets; sandpaper on the outside "as-cast" parts is to be avoided.

I should have made it more clear that this is exactly what I'd been thinking. I was considering it exclusively for the inside of the pan.

There are other methods you should try first on those residual dark spots. Steel wool is OK, as are stainless steel scrubbers like Chore Boy, and soft to medium bristled stainless steel hand brushes; anything that changes original cast or polished surface texture or appearance is verboten, ordinary utensil marks from cooking use excepted. All of the acceptable methods and implements are covered on the cleaning and seasoning pages of the main website, and are safe for any pan of any vintage.

Noted. I was thinking that a medium stainless brush would help get the crud out of the lettering. I also noted recommendations about popsicle sticks, bamboo skewers and old credit cards. I have plenty of those and will give them a shot this weekend.

But for the older piece, I think I'll stick with a long soak in lye water and some gentle handling beyond that. We'll see how it looks after that.

Thanks again.

 

[RickC]

So finally to my first question: I have some 400 and 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper

==========

Yesterday I won an auction for my first (and most likely only) pre-Griswold "Erie" piece. I'm sure I overspent,

==========

1. Is using sandpaper on the inside of a pan meant for use rather than display okay and/or effective?

Point 1: I read this and it gave me the shivers.. No sandpaper! :shock:

Point 2: Welcome to my world. Overspending is a way of life if you want nice things, don't have the time to hunt them, and don't live on the Eastern side of the U.S. Cast iron made it's way out West, but I'm not seeing much.. :frown:

Point 3: At the end of the day, it's your pan to do what you want with, but if you ever plan on selling it, nobody in their right mind will buy it. I have a feeling that once you lye bath that Erie, it will be nice and smooth and you'll love it. If not so smooth, season it, and try it. I've had great luck with an old Griswold skillet that looks like it had been buried underground for 20 years.

Oh, and welcome to your new addiction!

 

[JeanC]

I agree, please.. no sand paper or wire wheeled drills. Listen to these people, they know what not to do.

Also.. the flax seed oil will chip off, creating a mess of your pan... I wouldn't use it.

 

[PeteK]

I hope you'll notice that I asked the questions *before* I did anything, with the exception of the wire wheel (and that was on a scrap pan and not one I intend to use). I'm not terribly bright, but wise enough to know to ask questions and try to learn from other people's mistakes.

The flax seed seasoning has already been done on most of my pans. They've been very thin coats, and they don't seem like they'll chip. But I'll keep an eye out for that, and if it happens I may switch to another type of seasoning.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

Welcome to the forum PeteK

My cleaning method is real easy. A warm and Very Strong Lye Bath. Warning, if you wanted to steal one of my pieces out of my lye bath, your hand will come out with no skin left. I do use a sharp wood chisel at the right angle to the surface to help lift the heavy crud, then let it swim for a day or two more. I also have a small like tooth brush style SS brush to help. Do not use a brass brush. E tank for any rust, then off to the oven.

Also.. the flax seed oil will chip off, creating a mess of your pan... I wouldn't use it.

That will happen with any oil, fat ,grease if not applied right.

Flax seed , grape seed and olive oil works just fine. But there are differences with all oils. Knowing how to apply them is the trick.

 

[Doug D.]

That will happen with any oil, fat ,grease if not applied right.

Flax seed , grape seed and olive oil works just fine. But there are differences with all oils. Knowing how to apply them is the trick.

The only pans I've ever had seasoning lift off of were two: the one before I knew what "very thin layers" meant, and the one I used flaxseed oil on after I knew what "very thin layers" meant.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

Hi Jean,
Could you explain "chip off" Just how thick was on your pans?

Also.. the flax seed oil will chip off, creating a mess of your pan... I wouldn't use it.

Hi PeterK

The flax seed seasoning has already been done on most of my pans. They've been very thin coats, and they don't seem like they'll chip.

Thanks for the replies.

Have you used your flax seed seasoned pans yet. Would you care to give us some feed back. Also how thick are you putting it on?

Hi Doug D.

The only pans I've ever had seasoning lift off of were two: the one before I knew what "very thin layers" meant, and the one I used flaxseed oil on after I knew what "very thin layers" meant.

Do you remember just what type of flaxseed oil you used?

Thank you.

 

[Doug D.]

International Collection cold-pressed virgin flaxseed oil, which should be essentially the same as that used in the oft-referenced blog article.

 

[PeteK]

Oh, and welcome to your new addiction!

I'd call it more of an obsession, but I guess there's little difference between the two.

Have you used your flax seed seasoned pans yet. Would you care to give us some feed back. Also how thick are you putting it on?

2nd question first:
Very very thin. My procedure was basically this:
1. Wash pan and dry.
2. Warm pan(s) in the oven to 200°.
3. Take out, place on cardboard. Pour a small amount of oil in the pan. Push the oil around with a lint-free towel until it looks wet. Do this for top and bottom.
4. Using a clean towel, wipe the pan dry as much as possible.
5. Put the pan back in the oven, bring up to 500°, and bake for one hour.

I've liked the way it looked after doing after several coats.

I've used only one of the pans a few times with okay, but not great, results. But that may have more to do with technique than the seasoning. I"m still getting the hang of cooking with cast iron. For one thing, I don't think I've been heating up the pan long enough, which might explain why the eggs were sticking. And I recently switched to coconut oil for cooking and am still getting used to that.

That being said, you may have noticed that I said "my procedure was". Based on a few of the responses, today I did a coat of Crisco on all but one of my pans. I didn't join this site to ignore the experts, and if the general consensus is that the flax seed is going to chip long term, then I'm happy to switch.

There's so much to learn! Wish I could find a class or club near me that specializes in CI cooking.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

and if the general consensus is that the flax seed is going to chip long term, then I'm happy to switch.

That will happen with any oil, fat ,grease if not applied right. If you are putting the oil on like "your procedure" Not picking on you, how is it going to chip off. Trying to get my head wrapped around this chip thing.

"my procedure was"

Can I ask you what made you go the with your procedure "using six layers of flax seed oil"?

today I did a coat of Crisco on all but one of my pans.

Why?

There's so much to learn!

There are a lot of experts out there. HAHA!! Just read some listings on Ebay. Do you believe every thing that you are told or read the first time. Do your own homework. Take some pans strip them and season it with different oil, fat ,grease, butter, Crisco, or what ever you want. Make sure your bare metal pan is clean and dry before you start seasoning.
Then try cooking in them. When cooking with cast iron it is not like cooking with teflon, stainless steel, or copper. When you are cooking your eggs, are you using any oil, butter, grease?:icon_scratchchin:

 

[PeteK]

That will happen with any oil, fat ,grease if not applied right. If you are putting the oil on like "your procedure" Not picking on you, how is it going to chip off. Trying to get my head wrapped around this chip thing.

Are you saying I wasn't applying it right? Not sure what you're saying here, because your punctuation is confusing. I really don't think I was applying it wrongly, that is to say too heavily or on a wet pan. They've been bone dry, and I wipe off as much oil as I can before returning the pans to the oven.

Can I ask you what made you go the with your procedure "using six layers of flax seed oil"?

The (infamous) blog post I linked to in my OP, along with some other reading I'd done.

It seems like there are two schools of thought with regard to seasoning temperature - go above or stay below the smoke point. Well, I bought into the idea of going well over the seasoning oil's smoke point in a well ventilated kitchen. I still believe it. Because yesterday I still baked them at around 500°, well over Crisco's smoke point.

The flax seed coats were so thin and seemingly well bonded, I can't imagine they will chip, but time will tell. I certainly don't doubt Doug's or Jean's experiences.

Why?

Why did I switch to Crisco or why all but one pan? I switched to Crisco on the advice of the people on this site, along with other comments I've recently read in other places, and finally the WAGS recommendation as well.

I did all but one pan because I ran out of room in my oven.

Do you believe every thing that you are told or read the first time. Do your own homework.

I can't tell if you're being snarky or just straightforward. Of course I don't read one thing and run and do it. I've freaking read hundreds of blogs and posts and comments and recommendations, and most of them seem to contradict each other. I've read so many differing opinions, often stated as "fact," I thought my head would explode. And that's why I turned to this site, hoping there would be a general consensus, if not total agreement, on cleaning and seasoning. And to ask questions before I make irrecoverable mistakes.

When cooking with cast iron it is not like cooking with teflon, stainless steel, or copper.

No kidding.

When you are cooking your eggs, are you using any oil, butter, grease?

Yes, I'm using coconut oil.

I'm planning on trying to make some ghee in the near future. We'll see how that goes. And it seems like bacon fat has some good virtues as well, so I may start storing some of that.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

PeteK,

"I can't tell if you're being snarky or just straightforward."

Just straightforward, no sugar coating and no BS. Just want to cut through as you put it, comments and recommendations, and most of them seem to contradict each other. I've read so many differing opinions, often stated as "fact,"

I need to get to the mail to ship out orders. I will address your replies on my return

My wife just picked up coconut oil, I think I will stick with the bacon fat with my eggs.:glutton:

 

[Doug D.]

Text is often an imperfect medium to convey tone, so we should all be careful that intense curiosity doesn't begin to appear an interrogation.

The term "expert" is one that I think tends to be over used in the arena of CI collectibles. I prefer to say "experienced", with some people being more experienced (in some areas) than others. There are still far too many gray areas and unknowns in all facets of the hobby for anyone to declare themselves (or someone else) an "expert", me included.

I think if the flaxseed oil blog post would have been presented by someone known to the CI community as already very experienced in collectible CI restoration, the flaking might well have been written off as occasional operator error, which it may still in fact be. But we all know how things go in any setting when someone from the outside comes in and tells people who have been doing things quite successfully for years that what they've been doing is "all wrong", well...

 

[Jeffrey R.]

PeteK, Get your self a cold one and Pull up a chair. At the end of this you will see where my heart is. Doug D. could have not said it any better. Be careful that intense curiosity doesn't begin to appear an interrogation. It is intense curiosity.:icon_thumbsup:

Are you saying I wasn't applying it right? Not sure what you're saying here, because your punctuation is confusing.

I am not the judge if you are doing it right or wrong. Just trying to find why you seem to have had good luck seasoning your pans with flaxseed oil, unlike Jean and Doug D.

To steal a quote from Doug;

Text is often an imperfect medium to convey tone, so we should all be careful that intense curiosity doesn't begin to appear an interrogation.

I am being Just straightforward, no sugar coating and no BS. Just want to cut through as you put it, comments and recommendations, and most of them seem to contradict each other. I've read so many differing opinions, often stated as "fact," I am here to learn, as I trust you are.
As for myself, I read then play. Play with what ever I am trying to learn about. I have my own cast iron seasoning room with my own $800.00 stove. I got removed from the kitchen.:biggrin: Played scientist to much. My eyes and ears are always open.

Back to you're reply

It seems like there are two schools of thought with regard to seasoning temperature - go above or stay below the smoke point. Well, I bought into the idea of going well over the seasoning oil's smoke point in a well ventilated kitchen. I still believe it. Because yesterday I still baked them at around 500°, well over Crisco's smoke point.

Myself, I see no need to go well over the seasoning oil's smoke point, but at the same time never below the smoke point.

The flax seed coats were so thin and seemingly well bonded, I can't imagine they will chip

All oil applied in "very thin layers" will not chip. I do believe that there was an issue with there process, or what they were using. I mean it could have been a number of things, something that they were not aware of at the time.

I think if the flaxseed oil blog post would have been presented by someone known to the CI community as already very experienced in collectible CI restoration, the flaking might well have been written off as occasional operator error, which it may still in fact be.

enough said, Thank you Doug.

Of course I don't read one thing and run and do it. I've freaking read hundreds of blogs and posts and comments and recommendations, and most of them seem to contradict each other. I've read so many differing opinions, often stated as "fact," I thought my head would explode. And that's why I turned to this site, hoping there would be a general consensus, if not total agreement, on cleaning and seasoning. And to ask questions before I make irrecoverable mistakes.

So it looks like you did some homework. Looks like you went with your procedure using six layers of flax seed oil from the blog. All after reading,
Good. So why the drastic turnaround, when

I've freaking read hundreds of blogs and posts and comments and recommendations, and most of them seem to contradict each other. I've read so many differing opinions, often stated as "fact," I thought my head would explode.

Work with me here, as I am not trying to give you a hard time. We are in this together. Nothing was wrong with your pans before you just did the Crisco, they were not chipping.:icon_scratchchin:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey R.
When cooking with cast iron it is not like cooking with teflon, stainless steel, or copper.
I said that based on your statement, "I've used only one of the pans a few times with okay, but not great, results. But that may have more to do with technique than the seasoning. I"m still getting the hang of cooking with cast iron."
That could be part of your issue. I do not think it was your seasoning. Also I am taking a quote from the Blog that you went by,
"One other note… I suspect that many of the people who’ve been posting about sticking problems expect that an initial seasoning will result in a non-stick surface like teflon where oil during cooking is not needed. That’s not how it works. This article and the other one describe how to do an INITIAL SEASONING; it improves over time. That’s the nature of cast iron seasoning. You still need grease when cooking." Also I am still learning how to cook with all my iron. I have a Griswold #10 DO in the mail today. Just hope it does not look like your new piece.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

Continued;

I didn't join this site to ignore the experts, and if the general consensus is that the flax seed is going to chip long term, then I'm happy to switch.

Fact; I am not any part of this general consensus. I do not want to be the expert. There are tooooo many.:biggrin:

Question for you. If you had a choice, go to a doctor from the 1950 or 2014?

That is right 2014 science and technology has improved since 1950.

Maybe time to teach old dogs new tricks.:icon_scratchchin:

 

[RickC]

Question for you. If you had a choice, go to a doctor from the 1950 or 2014?

That is right 2014 science and technology has improved since 1950.

Maybe time to teach old dogs new tricks.:icon_scratchchin:

But, if you had a choice to go to a 93 year old woman or a 43 year old woman to get cast iron seasoning tips? I know who I'd go to.

PeteK, I've actually had better luck in CI with low/med heat for eggs. Too much heat causes sticking in all but my smoothest pans. And always lots o' butter. Butter is delicious and you should eat more anyway. MMMMmmm

 

[Jeffrey R.]

But, if you had a choice to go to a 93 year old woman or a 43 year old woman to get cast iron seasoning tips? I know who I'd go to.

PeteK, I've actually had better luck in CI with low/med heat for eggs. Too much heat causes sticking in all but my smoothest pans. And always lots o' butter. Butter is delicious and you should eat more anyway. MMMMmmm

Can we change it to a 93 year old man. Well he might have been only 89, that should work. He seasoned a skillet that he way selling in the family junk / antique shop. Yep that is right, he told me that he just re-seasoned this nice L Logo Griswold #8 skillet. It had more barnacles on the outside than a rock in the water on the coast of Maine. The inside was smeared with burnt butter.

I did purchase the skillet for $15.00

Oh RickC, I like things to be easy on the eyes, you know eye candy.::

Butter, I am getting some fresh cream from my farmer, going to make fresh butter.

PeteK, I have to agree with rick on the heat. :icon_thumbsup:

 

[PeteK]

I said that based on your statement, "I've used only one of the pans a few times...

Okay, now I understand things better.

As Doug said, it's difficult to judge people's tone sometimes. And being in IT, I've gotten used to a certain level of arrogance among the more experienced members of forums like this. But I always give people the benefit of the doubt, which is why I said I wasn't sure if your tone was snarky or straightforward, and answered the question hoping it was the latter. I didn't want to make the mistake of that guy who started the media blasting thread.

Another problem with this medium is that you never know how willing the target audience is to read a long post. That's exactly why I put the summary at the bottom of my OP. And in my quest for brevity, I omitted things which prompted your questions.

My experience with CI actually began almost two years ago when I bought my first two pans - a #6 and a #3, both small-logo Griswolds. I didn't take them down to the bare metal, just washed them with very hot water and dish soap. That left a lot of the old seasoning, especially on the #3. Then I seasoned them once with Crisco, but with too heavy a coat, leaving them sticky. At that time I'll admit I hadn't done a whole ton of reading on the subject, but I'd read that the more you use them, the better the seasoning will become, and that early on you should use a bit more oil when cooking.

So I have been cooking with CI for almost two years, albeit sporadically. I didn't have a grandparent who'd cooked with CI for 50 years and could show me stuff. My mom basically cooked to feed the family, not for the love of cooking. And my dad is mostly a griller. So I've turned to the Internet to learn what I wish I could have learned in front of my own stove over the past 40 years. Youtube has been helpful, because you can actually see the technique. And I figured this forum would be just as good (and it has been already).

It's been more recently that I've taken a much greater interest in A) making my pans more useable and B) cooking better and more often with them. So I bought a bunch more pans and stripped those as well as the two I already had down to the bare metal and have been seasoning them in the past two months.

tl;dr (haha)
I'm not exactly that new to CI, but still feel very much like a novice.

Now that you know more about me than you ever cared , I'll dive into some replies in a moment. I hope that the length of my posts are a clear indication of my sincerity and eagerness to learn.

Side note - I threw around the term "expert" early on, which may seem reckless. I do know that expertise is in the eye of the beholder. Heck, my kids think *I'm* a CI expert, which makes me :chuckle:. But it's really just in the interest of brevity - "expert" is a lot fewer characters than "more experienced member." I admit I use the terms interchangeably, even though I know they are semantically different.