Seasoned Pans

T

T.Winchester

Member
At what point does baked on oil become rancid, or even susceptible to salmonella, or is this even a possibility? If it's possible, does the next heating kill whatever salmonella is on the skillet?

I ask this because I've see people use a skillet that has been sitting for long periods of time (even the next day) with the previous dinner's grease still in it. Of course they usually spatula the grease out firs, but they don't wash it. Properly seasoning and cleaning each time (with water only) doesn't seem to be that far fetched.

So, how far out in left field am I on this? Let me have it!! :whip2:
 
If you pre heat the skillet before cook any thing on it, is enough heat to kill bacteria,the skillet reaches higher temperatures by it self.The people you see doing that still alive and do that every time they cook,that means is safe (nasty) but safe.Enjoy your meal.:glutton::glutton::glutton::glutton:
 
People have been doing that for hundreds of years. Apparently it hasn't killed anyone yet. It's extremely rare for me to wash (even with just plain water) my CI and especially the CI that's used for bacon and eggs. Lightly scrape it with the (metal) spatula if it needs it, dump the grease in a coffee can, wipe with a paper towel, and back on the stove top it goes until I use it the next time.
 
From what I've heard, oil is not a good medium for bacteria growth, so the risk is minimal.

I rarely wash my skillets. I'll start with paper towel, and if that doesn't do it, I'll use a non scratch sponge and hot water, and that will clean anything stuck. I will use soap when I have cooked fish...fish is the only thing I've noticed that tends to leave a smell behind.
 
I think it's not fair to say that it hasn't killed anybody yet, maybe it has or maybe it's made people sick, or just given them mild indigestion. Germ theory is still a relatively new idea and just because grandma never washed her pans doesn't mean we should always do the same. Many doctors were't even washing their hands until the 1800s. Even today, people in many parts of the world lack clean water or knowledge of good hygiene practices. There is nothing magically anti-bacterial about cast iron. If you create conditions for bacteria to thrive it will. It does not discriminate. When you heat something, you may kill it's germs but you can't kill it's poop. That's why cooking spoiled chicken doesn't magically make it ok to eat.

I don't mean to say I always wash my pans. In fact, most of the time I don't. I'm lucky to have my seasoning good enough that most of the time, there is nothing but oil left in the pan. When I make eggs, I just wipe out the excess oil with a paper towel. If I cook something that leaves some crud, I run it under water with a soapless sponge or a scraper. I try to leave nothing visible in my pan that could possibly spoil if it sat around for a couple days. If the pan is extra gross, I'm not afraid to use a bit of soap here and there.

I think it's always a good idea just to use your best judgment when it comes to a dirty CI pan, and don't follow strict rules about "always washing" or "never washing." Grandma was smart because she used common sense, and that's what we should be doing to.
 
J. Fisher said:
Grandma was smart because she used common sense, and that's what we should be doing to.
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I think our Grandma's had immune systems that would rival a cockroach too. My Great grandmother said something like that at 105 years of age.

I'm guilty of leaving greasy pans on the stove after cooking breakfast, and use them again the next day after a quick wipe. The heat will kill anything in it, but I'll still wash it if I find a fly drowned in whatever is left over in the pan.
 
"I think our Grandma's had immune systems that would rival a cockroach too."

Love it. Why? She ate her pint of dirt (or maybe a peck) and some bacteria and germs along the way to build up her immune system. Didn't use germ wipes for the door handle on the outhouse. A sterile environment will not build a good immune system. Not good for todays kids.

Ask yourself; How often did her butcher wash his cutting block with soap and hot water? There is common sense and there is paranoid. Common sense says germ poop should not be an issue in your life, even if there was such a thing.

Hilditch
 
I did not mean poop as in feces- its just an easier way to visualize why you can't make spoiled meat edible just by cooking it. A better word for bacteria poop is toxins. As some bacteria grow they produce toxins than normal cooking temperatures cannot make safe. The most well known being botulism. Pretending this doesn't happen doesn't make it safe.

Also, I'm sure my grandma's butcher sanitized properly. I would not buy meat from someone who didn't. You would?
 
J. Fisher said:
I did not mean poop as in feces- its just an easier way to visualize why you can't make spoiled meat edible just by cooking it. A better word for bacteria poop is toxins. As some bacteria grow they produce toxins than normal cooking temperatures cannot make safe. The most well known being botulism. Pretending this doesn't happen doesn't make it safe.

Also, I'm sure my grandma's butcher sanitized properly. I would not buy meat from someone who didn't. You would?
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I'm starting to think we are going to sanitize ourselves out of existence.

My Great Grandmother was born in 1890, died at 105 years of age in 1995. Used to love hearing her stories of growing up. Root cellars were common back then to keep food from freezing in winter and keep cool in summer. All were just holes in the ground, dirt walls and whatever bugs lived underground. Mom rented a house when I was a kid, I found an old root cellar that was full of old veggies, no idea how long they had been there but it was an old cellar. If you've never had aged cellar potatoes, you're missing out. Best french fries ever, so sweet.

Meats were salted or smoked for long term storage, fish was salted and dried, and all stored underground with whatever bugs and worms lived there. She'd butter a piece of bread and have to pick the maggots out before she ate. Sometimes the meat and fish got infested, wasn't being tossed. There was nothing sanitary when she was growing up, and there's lots of longevity in my family. We're going back to a day when lead was considered safe, asbestos was too...

I'm sure some got sick, others died from whatever but that happens today. I don't worry about a few germs. I can only imagine what has gone through my system just in childhood from playing in the sand with dinkies - with the neighborhood cats and all.
 
Rob- I totally get that. I love cured meats and would love to try cellared potatoes! I'm really interested in preservation through fermentation specifically. I've made sauerkraut, beer, and I hope to get a mother for kombucha from my friend this weekend. I've made jam with my grandmother many times. I am not afraid of the bugs around us. I'm impressed your grandma lived a long and healthy life. She probably ate a lot less preservatives than we do, and I'm jealous of that. There is a lot we can learn from our relatives that still totally applies today.

In 1900, 143 of every 100,000 died of gastrointestinal infections. I could not even find a number for present day, because it is so rare now.

I'm not advocating everybody worry incessantly about sanitation. As I said above I don't wash my pans most of the time. I don't often worry about these things either. I have used soap twice that i can remember on my cast iron and only in extreme sticky oily situations. I'm just saying we should use the common sense and understanding of safe food practices.
 
American history is full of food-borne illnesses: typhoid (Salmonella bacteria) sickened and killed a lot of people. My dad and his brother got typhoid, and they were lucky to have survived. Born in 1876, Dad's mother probably had no idea about sanitation in the kitchen.

I can't imagine picking maggots out of bread, and then eating it. WOW!

Bacon grease: the grease itself, I am not afraid of - after all I use it as seasoning for beans, and such - but it has to be strained of all the crumblings first.

I think my CI has to be introduced to soap and water after cooking.
 
J. Fisher said:
I did not mean poop as in feces- its just an easier way to visualize why you can't make spoiled meat edible just by cooking it. A better word for bacteria poop is toxins. As some bacteria grow they produce toxins than normal cooking temperatures cannot make safe. The most well known being botulism. Pretending this doesn't happen doesn't make it safe.

Also, I'm sure my grandma's butcher sanitized properly. I would not buy meat from someone who didn't. You would?
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Sanitizing in the early 1900s basically meant that the upscale butcher would wipe off the cutting surface with a rag with soap and water.

Having seen butcher shops in the 3rd world, it is not hard to imagine that the lack of sanitary procedures was a commonplace occurrence in the U.S. not too long ago.

5838852498_d3ae9faff0_b-611x500.jpg
 
Great pic! A big city butcher shop. I love seeing the sawdust on the floor. I remember seeing it in shops in Ontario - fish and meat. Great for absorbing some juices and any remaining blood. Sweep it back in off the sidewalk and close the door for the night. A new sprinkle on top and good to go the next day. Change it out on Sunday.

Missing from the pic are the chickens, but they are in the back.

OMG a fly landed on the meat!!!!!!!!!!!! BYA I'd buy my meat here.

Hilditch
 
RLMuse said:
Sanitizing in the early 1900s basically meant that the upscale butcher would wipe off the cutting surface with a rag with soap and water.

Having seen butcher shops in the 3rd world, it is not hard to imagine that the lack of sanitary procedures was a commonplace occurrence in the U.S. not too long ago.

5838852498_d3ae9faff0_b-611x500.jpg
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I hope you're not suggesting that if it was good for them in 1900 it's good for us. Many an illness spread as a result of this type of unsanitary condition. I guess I know now why women insist on rinsing meats before cooking :eek:

Really, I guess it's all a man's world on these forums that would suggest not worrying about germs. Few of us do, but when it comes to cooking, and preparing meals for others in the household, I take precautions. Of course, it probably doesn't help that I have a germ OCD diagnosis. :shootself:

Well, I'm thinking about the Lye bath, and am wondering if the food grade lye is any more safe than the regular. From what I've read through Google searches, its just as deadly.

And how do we know that Vinegar neutralizes the Lye, and that the Lye won't soak into the porous CI?

Serious post.
 
It was common practice back then to preserve meat with salt. I imagine all the carcasses hanging there are salted. It worked. It was also one of the reasons people would rinse the meat.
 
T.Winchester said:
Well, I'm thinking about the Lye bath, and am wondering if the food grade lye is any more safe than the regular. From what I've read through Google searches, its just as deadly.

And how do we know that Vinegar neutralizes the Lye, and that the Lye won't soak into the porous CI?

Serious post.
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Serious answer. Cast iron isn't porous, that's an internet myth.

I don't ever neutralize with vinegar, once scrubbed with stainless wool they are washed in soap and water, rinsed and seasoned...

Ever eat a bagel? They are either dipped in a lye solution or baking soda solution. When I make them, I use lye.
 
sheesh, cast iron isn't porous? It's one of the most porous of metals, and if it wasn't there'd be no more seasoning on the pan when it gets wiped down, which is why it has to be hot (when the pores are opened) when seasoned, and cooled down so the pores close and retain the seasoning.

I would have thought there'd be a few experts in the industries in this place to help clarify some this stuff, but it seems that it's populated with people with differing opinions, sans credentials.
 
It's not porous, at least not in the respect that it has channels like a sponge through which liquid may flow or openings that expand and contract relative to temperature. There may be microscopic irregularities where crystalline graphite, a component of cast iron, may have been removed leaving voids at the surface, but we're talking microns. If it were porous, we wouldn't need to wipe it down, the oil would just soak in.
 
So if I understand this correctly, T. Winchester, your credentials (since you brought them up) for perpetuating the myth that cast iron is porous, not knowing the basic chemistry of acids and bases (i.e., how vinegar neutralizes lye), and that lye is "deadly," is some Google searches and being a certified germaphobe. Is that about right?

As for my "credentials:" B.S. in Science and Mathematics, "A" level licenses in potable water, biological wastewater, physical/chemical wastewater, water distribution, and I recently retired after 32 years in the nuclear power industry as a chemistry supervisor. I have other credentials as well, but those are really the only ones pertinent here. At the end of the day though, my credentials ain't getting me a cup of coffee at Starbucks or anywhere else, for that matter. Point being.........."credentials" don't mean squat.
 
KevinE said:
So if I understand this correctly, T. Winchester, your credentials (since you brought them up) for perpetuating the myth that cast iron is porous, not knowing the basic chemistry of acids and bases (i.e., how vinegar neutralizes lye), and that lye is "deadly," is some Google searches and being a certified germaphobe. Is that about right?

As for my "credentials:" B.S. in Science and Mathematics, "A" level licenses in potable water, biological wastewater, physical/chemical wastewater, water distribution, and I recently retired after 32 years in the nuclear power industry as a chemistry supervisor. I have other credentials as well, but those are really the only ones pertinent here. At the end of the day though, my credentials ain't getting me a cup of coffee at Starbucks or anywhere else, for that matter. Point being.........."credentials" don't mean squat.
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I readily admit that I am new to the cast iron hobby, and that I have no experience or education that would make me an informed source. That's why I came here, to try to get credible information.

The often repeated line that "I've been doing this for x-years, and it works, and I'm not dead yet" doesn't work either. The fact that something works doesn't make it safe. People do their own residential and commercial electrical work all the time, and each time, they get a result that "works" until their structure catches fire. Prior to that, they, too, claimed that "it's been working for 50 years, and it ain't burned yet". Bad results don't have to happen immediately; the long-term problems are a concern too.

It's not my intention to disparage anyone here, and I apologize for coming across that way. As I say, I have no credentials to back up my statements, other than what I consider to be of common concern. I was just hoping that there might be a few folks from the industry who could weigh in. That doesn't make this forum bad, but it tends to lessen the quality of the advice here, particular in regards to safety.

So, again, I apologize, and I really want you all to know that I do appreciate you being here. This is a fantastic hobby that I hope proves a bit financially rewarding to me.

BTW: I posed a question to the folks at Lodge, asking them of their opinion on the use of Lye and drain cleaner on cast iron. For what it's worth, here is their reply:



Amanda Gholston
Today at 9:11 AM

To xxxxx@xxxxx.com

Hello Terry,

We don’t recommend using Lye or Drain Cleaner on Cast Iron Cookware.

To remove Rust Build up have the cast iron cookware sandblasted (at a local body or machine shop) then Re-Season in the oven Immediately (The cookware would need to be seasoned SEVERAL times in the oven after sandblasting).

There are three types of rust:

FLASH RUSTING

Usually, rusting on new pieces is “flash rusting”. Sometimes this may be seen on a piece that has been on display for a while in a store, and has been handled frequently.

Rubbing vegetable oil briskly with a cloth on the affected area can treat flash rusting.

PROFILE RUST

This is a more involved rust appearance, and can be felt on the cast iron piece because it “profiles” on the surface.

You will need to use steel wool or an abrasive soap pad (SOS, BRILLO, etc. – soap is okay to use at this time), to scrub the affected area. Don’t worry . . . you won’t hurt the cast iron. Once the piece has been scrubbed down to the raw cast iron, it should be re-seasoned immediately to prevent rusting.

SERIOUS RUST

This type of rust is covering the majority of the cast iron piece. These involve pieces that have been in a state of neglect for a long time, such as flea market or garage sale finds. No amount of hand scrubbing can remove this type rust.

The only course of action is to take the piece to a local machine shop or auto/body shop and have the item sandblasted. This will return the cast iron to its original raw form. TAKE THE PIECE HOME AND SEASON IT IMMEDIATELY!

Thank You,

Amanda Gholston

Customer Service

Lodge MFG
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