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small pot ???
- Thread starter John K
- Start date
W. Hilditch
Active member
I've got that kettle. It's a BSR and Doug said they were made up to the early 1960's. I decided mine was from the 40's just 'cause it looks like it. It's a fun kettle.
Hilditch
Hilditch
W. Hilditch
Active member
Eric, I don’t have any proof. Modemac said; “The lids for the saucepans had two separate designs.” showing the tab & handle without dates. Also, the camping DO’s lids had tabs. They don’t even mention a BSR round bottom kettle or the RB 2778 lid. Mine came with a forged nose ring that appeared factory installed making it look older. The lid doesn’t have dimples, but maybe the lid for the round bottom (RB) kettle never did. Just like the camp oven lids with a tab handle never had dimples.
Now the 3 footed bailed anvil eared kettle has no markings so the top is the only indication as to who made it. As this vessel does not fit my image of a late 60’s or after kitchen, I chose to bump it back to where it would fit. After the markings on the inside of the lid get covered with seasoning it may become a Southern mystery with a best guess age.
Hilditch
Now the 3 footed bailed anvil eared kettle has no markings so the top is the only indication as to who made it. As this vessel does not fit my image of a late 60’s or after kitchen, I chose to bump it back to where it would fit. After the markings on the inside of the lid get covered with seasoning it may become a Southern mystery with a best guess age.
Hilditch
Yes, modemac is my main BSR info source and I basically just parrot what he says instead of providing original research. And that requires me to trust the accuracy of his research. So if anyone knows of inaccurate info on his pages, I would like to know so I'm not passing along bad info, or at least know better myself.
You're right, he makes no mention of these kettles (as well as some other BSR products)on any of the pages I've seen. For the tab lids, his best info is on the page for outdoor cookware. He says:
(more relevant passages bolded for better clarity)
"In 1967, the introduction of DISA automated production brought one major change to the design of the camp oven lid. As with their saucepans, all Birmingham Stove & Range camp lids made during and after the year 1967 have tab handles rather than typical handles. These tab handles make the pot harder to lift, and persons using these lids would often use a hook or even pliers to lift the lid. The tab handle was a cost-cutting measure used with lines of product produced in lower numbers. A lid with a handle required an additional step in the manufacturing process to produce the handle, while the tab lid could be molded at the same time as the lid itself. Far more dutch oven lids were produced at BS&R than camp oven lids; therefore, the additional effort and expense was made so that all of the dutch oven lids were made with handles. Fewer camp oven lids were made and sold, so these lids were made with tab handles to reduce production costs.
Dwayne Henson wrote on Facebook, 'Before the Mair lifter, most people used camping pliers, fencing pliers, channel locks, etc. to lift the lid. The problem with these was that often, people would often grip the coal retaining ring with the pliers and a bust out a section of that ring. That is why so many older CO Lids have 'bites' missing out of the coal retaining ring. Don't do this! Lifting that thick tab with pliers ought to work, but don't do that! Get a proper lifter. I have also seen where people run a loop of wire through the hole and use that. But the tab was a very easy pattern for the mold to release with the DISA machines. CO [camp oven] lids were a smaller volume item and the lifting tab was a quick, easy, cheap way to get the job done. The higher volume items DO/Skillet lids had that opening finger handle redesigned to work with the DISA's.' – April 29, 2015"
http://www.modemac.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Outdoor_Cookware_by_Birmingham_Stove_and_Range
So, though he only mentions camp lids and saucepan lids specifically, it implies that the tab lid handle design was introduced with DISA automation, not before. But if this is not true, I'd like to know.
I do agree the kettle design "looks" older...
You're right, he makes no mention of these kettles (as well as some other BSR products)on any of the pages I've seen. For the tab lids, his best info is on the page for outdoor cookware. He says:
(more relevant passages bolded for better clarity)
"In 1967, the introduction of DISA automated production brought one major change to the design of the camp oven lid. As with their saucepans, all Birmingham Stove & Range camp lids made during and after the year 1967 have tab handles rather than typical handles. These tab handles make the pot harder to lift, and persons using these lids would often use a hook or even pliers to lift the lid. The tab handle was a cost-cutting measure used with lines of product produced in lower numbers. A lid with a handle required an additional step in the manufacturing process to produce the handle, while the tab lid could be molded at the same time as the lid itself. Far more dutch oven lids were produced at BS&R than camp oven lids; therefore, the additional effort and expense was made so that all of the dutch oven lids were made with handles. Fewer camp oven lids were made and sold, so these lids were made with tab handles to reduce production costs.
Dwayne Henson wrote on Facebook, 'Before the Mair lifter, most people used camping pliers, fencing pliers, channel locks, etc. to lift the lid. The problem with these was that often, people would often grip the coal retaining ring with the pliers and a bust out a section of that ring. That is why so many older CO Lids have 'bites' missing out of the coal retaining ring. Don't do this! Lifting that thick tab with pliers ought to work, but don't do that! Get a proper lifter. I have also seen where people run a loop of wire through the hole and use that. But the tab was a very easy pattern for the mold to release with the DISA machines. CO [camp oven] lids were a smaller volume item and the lifting tab was a quick, easy, cheap way to get the job done. The higher volume items DO/Skillet lids had that opening finger handle redesigned to work with the DISA's.' – April 29, 2015"
http://www.modemac.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Outdoor_Cookware_by_Birmingham_Stove_and_Range
So, though he only mentions camp lids and saucepan lids specifically, it implies that the tab lid handle design was introduced with DISA automation, not before. But if this is not true, I'd like to know.
I do agree the kettle design "looks" older...
W. Hilditch
Active member
I got the impression the camp lids had the tab lid handle from the git go as one needed that to lift when the top was filled with coals.
Hilditch
Hilditch
Red Mountain literature from the 30s-40s shows no tab handles anywhere. Atlanta Stove Works literature dated 1966 shows loop handles in all cases. A BSR Century brochure purportedly from 1987 shows a small DO with a loop handle lid, a large DO and a stew pan with tab handles, and a CO with a loop handle. My understanding has been that, with the inception of automation, BSR didn't immediately have a solution to deal with loop handles and thus went with tabs. Once the issue was resolved, low volume items continued to use tab handles.
W. Hilditch
Active member
Maybe Red Mountain didn't make a camp oven. I'm only using logic here, but if a camp oven had a loop handle there would be a lot of coals in the stew. A single balanced point lift would make more sense.
Hilditch
Hilditch
W. Hilditch
Active member
Thanks for the proof Doug. It looks like you and Eric were right.
Hilditch
Hilditch