Real Corn Bread

KevinE said:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/08/why-southern-cornbread-shouldnt-have-sugar.html
Click to expand...


I stumbled onto that article last night. In part:

The simplest type of cornbread was corn pone, which was made from a basic batter of cornmeal stirred with water and a little salt....

Over time, the basic pone recipe was enhanced to become cornbread. Cooks first added buttermilk and a little baking soda to help it rise. Later, eggs and baking powder made their way into many recipes. But there are two ingredients you almost never see in any recipes before the 20th century: wheat flour and sugar.
Click to expand...

OK, so over time, it evolved. Cooks later added other ingredients like buttermilk and baking soda. Why must the evolution stop there? If somebody discovered something that made it better enough that it became commonplace, how is that any different than discovering that buttermilk and baking soda made it better? Is any car engine without a carburetor and distributer cap not a car engine?

(just playing devil's advocate here. I actually have been thinking about trying just the basic corn pone recipe)

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------
Dan Farmer said:
I stumbled onto that article last night. In part:



OK, so over time, it evolved. Cooks later added other ingredients like buttermilk and baking soda. Why must the evolution stop there? If somebody discovered something that made it better enough that it became commonplace, how is that any different than discovering that buttermilk and baking soda made it better? Is any car engine without a carburetor and distributer cap not a car engine?

(just playing devil's advocate here. I actually have been thinking about trying just the basic corn pone recipe)
Click to expand...

Whoops! Looks like I hadn't read far enough. Generally the meat of an article is found near the top... not so in this case. It is explained further down.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------
David P Fortin said:
My Father, now passed, once told me that corn bread should be made with white corn meal only as white corn was for people and yellow corn was for animals. So once he was over to our house for a visit and wanted corn bread for dinner. We were out of white corn meal. So we put about a cup of white popcorn in our electric coffee grinder and let it grind, The corn bread was absolutely wonderful. David.
Click to expand...

Found this: http://www.old-mill.com/shop/popcorn-meal-23541

http://www.old-mill.com/prodimages/1973-DEFAULT-m.jpg

Popping corn was first milled for baking in WWII, due to a shortage of wheat flour. It became so popular that later the cost of popcorn flour rose drastically. It's delicious in cornbread, batters for deep-frying, muffins, and dense cakes.
Click to expand...
 
Stone-ground (they retired the water wheel) but not dent. That could make the difference. Somehow lard brings out the corn flavor in todays corn but the butter did not.

Hilditch
 
W. Hilditch said:
Stone-ground (they retired the water wheel) but not dent. That could make the difference. Somehow lard brings out the corn flavor in todays corn but the butter did not.

Hilditch
Click to expand...

Speaking of lard, *real* (non-hydrogenated) lard is available in many Mexican grocery stores. They know it as "manteca". A commercial version that is hydrogenated is available, but if they make their own chicharrons, they will also have something like this:

http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...30e4b0aff3654932c1/1430750633015/_MG_8952.jpg

I mention this, not only for cooking, but also for seasoning.
 
W. Hilditch said:
Does wheat flour and white sugar enhance the flavor of cornbread? Stupid people think so so Jiffy makes them happy. I don't waste my time talking to these folks. Hardcore is one of the nicer things people have called me.

Hilditch
Click to expand...

Not stupid people, just people from a different part of the county. Not everyone is raised wth the same types of food on their tables.

Sweet cornbread is a Northeastern concoction as they have used sugar and whole milk in their cornbread for quite a while. New Englanders were using Mollasses to sweeten their cornbread as early as early 1800s. Wheat flour was however nt used until about the 1870s.

Southern cornbread is almost always made without any sugar and is often made with buttermilk.

Different traditions from different regions.

Neither group is stupid for loving what their Grandmothers served at the dinner table.
 
Last edited:
RLMuse said:
Not stupid people, just people from a different part of the county. Not everyone is raised wth the same types of food on their tables.

Sweet cornbread is a Northeastern concoction as they have used sugar and whole milk in their cornbread for quite a while. New Englanders were using Mollasses to sweeten their cornbread as early as early 1800s. Wheat flour was however nt used until about the 1870s.

Southern cornbread is almost always made without any sugar and is often made with buttermilk.

Different traditions from different regions.

Neither group is stupid for loving what their Grandmothers served at the dinner table.
Click to expand...
Good point. Really, cornbread (or the basis for cornbread) came from the American Indians. It is entirely possible, maybe likely, that the northern tribes made their cornbread with maple syrup, and taught that tradition to the whites.

That said... I want to try some with molasses for sweetening! Sounds interesting. I also want to try with ground popcorn.

One thing that did confuse me about that article is that it said that sugar was added because they were no longer using dent corn, but sweet corn. Why would using sweet corn meal mean that you would add sugar? Seems backwards to me.
 
Dan Farmer said:
Good point. Really, cornbread (or the basis for cornbread) came from the American Indians. It is entirely possible, maybe likely, that the northern tribes made their cornbread with maple syrup, and taught that tradition to the whites.

That said... I want to try some with molasses for sweetening! Sounds interesting. I also want to try with ground popcorn.

One thing that did confuse me about that article is that it said that sugar was added because they were no longer using dent corn, but sweet corn. Why would using sweet corn meal mean that you would add sugar? Seems backwards to me.
Click to expand...

Possibly found that they liked the slightly sweeter taste of the sweet corn and decided to see if it would be better even sweeter.
 
Let's have a little respect for Mr. Parker. At least he knew the difference between a corn pone, corn bread and corn cake.

Hilditch
 
OK, I tried a sacrilegious version of cornbread with molasses tonight, and am here to say that molasses may well be the best sweetener for cornbread ever! I made a pan of "that" prepackaged corn bread tonight, with these twists:

Added an extra egg yoke... didn't notice it. Not worth the extra egg.
Added some yellow cornmeal. Meh. Gave a little more grit to the texture.
Added about 2 Tablespoons of dark molasses... YUM!!! Even better with more poured over the top! The flavors meld beautifully.
 
W. Hilditch said:
Let's have a little respect for Mr. Parker. At least he knew the difference between a corn pone, corn bread and corn cake.

Hilditch
Click to expand...

Well, I guess that depends on where you are from also.

Corn Pone was supposedly originally a mixture of corn meal and water that was cooked on hot flat rocks over a fire by the Native Americans. It was sometimes referred to as Hoe Cakes, as a small dollop could be cooked on a garden hoe over a small fire.

Corn Cakes were more akin to pancakes but made with a thin cornmeal batter.

Corn Bread is a broader category, which encompasses any bread that uses corn meal as it primary source of starch.

With all due reverence and respect to the esteemed Mr. Parker, he is not the be all and end all authority on all things related to corn bread.

I learned a lot of my cooking from my Grandfather, a mister William Henry Muse, born in 1886 in Massachusetts, died in 1988, our ancestors came to North America in 1651. While his cooking style and recipes are different than those held in such high esteem with an almost religious fervor by Southerners, it has just as much historical significance and validity as that of any Southern cuisine, and just as much flavor.

It is simply a matter of familiarity with the flavors you were raised with that determines whether on certain person thinks a certain recipe is better than another recipe.

I am almost certain that some people here would absolutely hate Boston Baked Beans with Sweet Brown Bread, when they were raised on BBQ Beans and Sourdough Bread.
I am also certain that some people from the Northeast would do the exact opposite and not enjoy the BBQ Beans and Sourdough Bread.

This doesn't mean that either dish is superior to the other. It just means that they are different than each other.

For a lot of people, the comfort foods they grew up with set their palate and determine their preference.
 
Last edited:
RLMuse said:
For a lot of people, the comfort foods they grew up with set their palate and determine their preference.
Click to expand...

Yep. Sitting here chewing on some comfort food that I grew up with. Newfoundland toutans, or fried up bread dough. Lovely, makes the best sandwiches.

Don't think I ever heard of cornbread til the last couple of years.
 
I wouldn't. If you do please don't post it here. Somebody will misread it and think I put beans in my cornbread when I prefer to have them side by side.

Hilditch
 
After thoughts: I grew up a yankee and occasionally had corn muffins, read cake, out of a Jiffy box. This was when mom would hide the Log Cabin Syrup. Note that Jiffy does not call it’s mix corn bread ‘cause even Jiffy knows it is not corn bread. Yes, I like corn cake.

Never had corn bread until I became a Damn Yankee. Didn’t like it much. What was OK was more like corn cake. When I made the recipe above it opened up something new with a lot of corn flavor and was really good without being sweet. It was then I understood how corn bread became such a staple in the South. It needs technique and the right fresh ingredients to get it right.

Liking one or the other or both is OK. I just don’t believe a Chevy Volt should be called a Corvette or a casserole a salad.

Hilditch
 
Hi all, thanks for the discussion! I agree with Hilditch and RobM: some foods are versatile and nearly universal. For me the variety is the really amusing part. We have the great good luck to live in an era when food is generally available and of good quality. I now have a more complete appreciation for foods made with cornmeal. It's really fun to "listen in" on the various forum threads, and the useful info. on this site is great! (Bye the by, my Sidney No. 8 pan washed up like a dream; we are, however, still eating the apple pie, and I will not go near the bathroom scales for some time! Lol)
 
Sharon, I'm glad your skillet is OK (Yea for seasoned CI) and I hope the cook recovers too. I found a #5 skillet can make a great pie for two with four used to be normal servings. Eight servings here requires freezer time.

Hilditch
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top