Why Wagner?

Sorry Kevin, I don’t have it in a neat little pile to post. It is info I’ve seen over the years but had no reason to save. Some of one side of the coin can be found on this site and the rest is out there on the internet.

This thread was posted to unearth the up side of Wagner, not to make, defend or argue a case against Wagner. My understanding/opinion is just that. Nothing more and this thread is my attempt to broaden it out.

Hilditch
 
We all have our favorite pans and of course makers. We then look for reasons as to why this one is better than another. I am a rank amateur in cast iron so I am happy to listen to reasonings and theory.
 
The group is so-named because WAGS makes a better acronym than GAWS, That, and there was already a "Griswold & Cast Iron Cookware Association" from which they were intent on differentiating and distancing themselves. The book is so-titled simply because it deals with Wagner primarily and with Griswold secondarily, not as an implied endorsement of one over the other. Its companion volume is the reverse in both title and focus of content.

When one presents an opinion worded as an unequivocal statement of fact, it tends to do more harm than good in the CI collecting world, and especially on the internet where people are prone to the taking and repeating of only snatches of information without fully reading and comprehending before forming their own opinions. If one is unable or unwilling to provide at least a reference to a source supporting such opinion that can be examined, researched further, verified as reasonably plausible or, alternatively, debunked, one should refrain from the making of assertions in that manner here.
 
Doug D. said:
If one is unable or unwilling to provide at least a reference to a source supporting such opinion that can be examined, researched further, verified as reasonably plausible or, alternatively, debunked, one should refrain from the making of assertions in that manner here.
Click to expand...

OK Doug. I hereby present the forums and libraries of this site and WAGS as the basis for my opinions as they have both contributed heavily to my opinions. I sure do hope that your above restrictions on opinions does not kill members opinions, however flawed or undocumented they may be.

Hilditch
 
The #1 reason I picked Wagner to collect is price. I live on a fixed income and when I first started to collect Cast Iron, I looked at all the different foundries and noticed that when the Griswold name was invoked, the price jumped a decimal point in the wrong direction for my funds. Wagner was a foundry that has been around almost as long as Griswold and has a lower collective price. As in most anything in life, there are experts in their chosen field and users/fanciers. I like to collect Cast Iron but it's not an area of study to me.

I guess in so many words is I know about a lot of things, I'm just not an expert at any one. Yes I like Fords, Cast Iron, Santa Claus, Lighthouses, and Antenna Balls but it's a passion of the heart, not the facts. Besides, if we all liked one thing it would become boring fast. I support Hilditch in his unique way of coming at things in a way most of us don't look at. I also love a good debate.

Scott
 
DSBradley said:
The #1 reason I picked Wagner to collect is price. I live on a fixed income and when I first started to collect Cast Iron, I looked at all the different foundries and noticed that when the Griswold name was invoked, the price jumped a decimal point in the wrong direction for my funds. Wagner was a foundry that has been around almost as long as Griswold and has a lower collective price. As in most anything in life, there are experts in their chosen field and users/fanciers. I like to collect Cast Iron but it's not an area of study to me.

I guess in so many words is I know about a lot of things, I'm just not an expert at any one. Yes I like Fords, Cast Iron, Santa Claus, Lighthouses, and Antenna Balls but it's a passion of the heart, not the facts. Besides, if we all liked one thing it would become boring fast. I support Hilditch in his unique way of coming at things in a way most of us don't look at. I also love a good debate.

Scott
Click to expand...


Antenna balls?! I had to reach way back to remember these!

I also LOVE Bonnie's photo, that would be great if the girl were holding CI.

For me, it depends on the pan and the use. My go to #10 is a Wagner (was my grandmothers), my go to #8 is that one with the v under the 8, don't know who made it but it is it is lighter than my previous go to Griswold. I have this beautiful Griswold DO, yet, I find myself grabbing the unmarked one all the time. Not sure why, maybe the Griswold is too pretty...
 
I, on the other hand, prefer a good discussion. The problem with debate is it's not about learning and sharing. It's not about finding truth or new information. It's about defending a position, arguing a point, winning and not losing. It's about strategy and device. The last comment, however, did make me think of debate:
I hereby present the forums and libraries of this site and WAGS as the basis for my opinions as they have both contributed heavily to my opinions. I sure do hope that your above restrictions on opinions does not kill members opinions, however flawed or undocumented they may be.
Click to expand...
In debate, this is called employing a variation of the "straw man" argument. Rather than produce evidence in support of the original position (see post #1, that Wagner produced an inferior product and engaged in price-cutting), the author takes out of context and misrepresents the other side's statement (that the unsubstantiated opinion should not be mischaracterized as fact) as being in favor of suppressing the voicing of all opinions, and instead tries to make that the issue.

And 3 pages of posts later, we still have not learned whether or not Wagner actually intentionally used iron and finishing inferior to Griswold or if they engaged in price-cutting, nor has any information in support of either assertion been shared.
 
To Helen, Sharon, Kevin E, Scott & Ty; thank you for your input. Per post #1, if there are any other Wagner fans out there please let me know what you think.

Hilditch
 
I think Doug missed the point of this thread. The question wasn't whether Wagner used cost cutting processes or stole patterns, it was what is it about Wagner that makes it a preferred brand to collect to those of us who collect it. If I'm wrong Hilditch, smite me.

Scott
 
Personally, I like Wagner because it's the first pan I got. My mother made her Manicotti shells in a #3 Wagner. I still have it and always will.
The second skillet I got was a Wagner #7 from a yard sale. It belonged to the guy's grandmother and he never used it. Wanted it to go to a good home.
I cook in Griswold, Favorite Piqua and Diamond number series as well. I like them all.
But I guess I have a certain sentimental attachment for Wagner. So for me, that's why Wagner. Perhaps if my first pan was Vollrath or Piqua, I'd have the same attachment to them. I love to cook in the old CI, love their weight and ease of handling and get great enjoyment out of collecting different makes. I just don't see that much difference in these brands, but I'm not an expert.
 
Maybe that is why my 10 SK is still my goto skillet. For the past 33 years it has been my CI training and learning skillet and the first CI one I ever had success using. We know each other, it’s the right size, and it just feels right. Sort of like a good woman. Maybe more dependable.

For smaller jobs I often use my inherited #7 BSR and can not say anything against it no matter hard hard I would try. However, it just does not feel right. It wasn’t first.

Hilditch
 
I think you're asking the wrong question. Not why Wagner but why Griswold? Personally, I think it's just that the large block logo is "cool" looking, but in my experience small block logo Griswold's are better skillets. If costs were equal and one were to purchase 10 random small block skillets and 10 large block skillets probably 7-8 small blocks would lay flat while you'd be lucky to get 6 in the large blocks. Weight pretty much the same though the partial ribbed handle large blocks are lighter but in turn they're more prone to sulfur pitting. Seems really then that the small blocks being better should be worth more right. Sorry, just doesn't have that eye popping logo

Now with flat bottom Wagner's it's hard to find one that doesn't wobble or spin, but, on a lot of those, if you put a level on the actual cooking surface - flat as pancake. Maybe quality control wasn't as good, who really knows what the standards were.

However, if one were to take a heat ring era Wagner and put it up against Griswold's of the same time period and made logos invisible one would be hard pressed to find much difference between the two. If rarity were the sole indication of worth, then Wagner's of this era would actually be worth more as they are rarer than Griswold's and then in turn you have your Favorites Vollrath's and Wapak's which in turn are far rarer than Wagner pieces.

So again why Griswold? I think it's the cool logo and to sort of prove it look at the Wapak Indian head. That one cool logo jack's up the price enormously
 
Ken, we agree on the infatuation with Griswold. No question required. My question was; “So why the infatuation with Wagner?”

Hilditch
 
KenK said:
However, if one were to take a heat ring era Wagner and put it up against Griswold's of the same time period and made logos invisible one would be hard pressed to find much difference between the two.
Click to expand...

I have some of each, and I very much agree with this. It could be that the answer to "Why Wagner?" has less to do with infatuation and more to do with being practical once you factor in Griswold's price premium.
 
Guys, very intelligent responses. Especially applied to a time period. My take on Wagner probably needs to be time period adjusted. Thanks.

Hilditch
 
Last edited:
Actually, if I could find a set it would be to have a set of Block logo Favorites (the very first logo) I've had a number 8 and it was the lightest skillet I've had to date and saw a #12 in an antique store that weighed less than most #10's. That being said both of them were warped - pushing the envelope will lead to that.

Another lightweight - lighter than both Griswold and Wagner was this

attachment.php


attachment.php


If these are indeed Blacklock's why oh why did you become big heavy old Lodge I don't know?
 

Attachments

  • DSC06002.jpg
    DSC06002.jpg
    39.3 KB · Views: 58
  • DSC06008.jpg
    DSC06008.jpg
    37.7 KB · Views: 60
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top